Delve Too Deep

This card is really fun and really good. Experience is immensely powerful in this game, and a multiplayer group that Delves aggressively can easily get about twice as much of it as a group that does not. A few tips for using Delve correctly:

1) With only a few exceptions (The Gathering and Extracurricular Activity come to mind), you don't want to Delve in the middle of the scenario. Even if there seems to be a quiet moment, Delving will rapidly make it unquiet, and this is no good. Rather, you want to Delve almost at the end of the scenario, right as the investigators are poised to win. If you're about to resign, to spend clues to advance the last Act card, or otherwise achieve the end of the scenario (and even when you're playing blind, it's very obvious when the scenario is about to end), that is the time to Delve. The majority of scenarios have a design that makes it possible for the investigators to hang around for a turn or two while on the cusp of victory.

This has numerous advantages. First and foremost, you don't have to deal with a lot of the encounter cards. Any monsters that show up can be ignored (although you might want to kill them if they're VP monsters), any damage/horror you take that doesn't kill you is irrelevant, etc. Moreover, since you have seen what the encounter cards in the scenario are (if you didn't know them already), you should know if Delving is safe or not. If there's an encounter card that might kill you or otherwise cost you the scenario, you can properly weigh the risks before Delving.

2) If there is a severely wounded investigator who cannot draw the extra encounter card without risking trauma, that investigator can sometimes resign before everyone else Delves. They don't have to draw the encounter card, and they still get the VP!

3) Cards like Ward of Protection, "Let me handle this!", etc., can make Delving at the end of the game considerably safer.

4) The other time to Delve is when you are certain to lose. If everything went wrong and you are inevitably going to have to resign in defeat or take trauma anyway--and we've all been in this situation--there's no reason not to get a VP or two first.

Played in this way, the drawback of Delve Too Deep is not really the encounter cards it draws, which hardly end up mattering at all, but just the fact that it takes up the spot of a card that could otherwise help you win the scenario. But the VP reward is more than enough to justify that, in my opinion. And you can of course replace it by the the last scenario or two.

If you haven't tried a multiplayer group in which every investigator packs two copies of Delve (use proxies to make this happen), I highly recommend it. Your decks will power up incredibly quickly.

CaiusDrewart · 3185
This card is nuts. Were playing dunwich with Team Seeker (Daisy, Minh, Norman and Rex). We have 6 delves in the team and played 4-6 each mission. We just completed "where doom awaits" and have accrued 70 XP now. We often got more XP from delves than the actual adventure. Delve also assures you get all VP monsters. — Django · 5161
In a group it's helpful to be at same location when playing "delve too deep", as "a test of will" and "ward of protection 2" can counter other player's mythos cards. — Django · 5161
Scrying 2 is very helpful to arrange mythos cards before a delve, so the fighter gets the monster, ancient evils are countered and tests are assigned to person with highest attribute. — Django · 5161
Just want to clarify - when you say proxies you mean creating extra cards to replicate this effect? As a work-around to buying multiple copies of MM? — Time4Tiddy · 249
@Time4Tiddy: Yes, my 3-player group often wanted to run 6 Delves, but we didn't want to buy 3 copies of Miskatonic Museum, so we often proxied it with some other Mystic card no one was using. Delve is the only card that we felt strongly enough about to bother doing that. Of course, now that the Taboo list is a thing, we don't need to do that any more. — CaiusDrewart · 3185
Does this experience point count for everyone in the group or only for the one playing it? — Vortilion · 1
@vorilion - For the whole group — BraidsMamma · 8
Key of Ys

Many people think this card is totally broken. Is it really? Let's analyze it.

Costs

  • 5 XP: Very expensive, but reasonable for such a powerful effect. We're lucky it's not exceptional.
  • 3 Ressources: Reasonable price, which most investigators should be able to pay. Only Dark Horse decks may find it too expensive.
  • Relic Slot: Shares the slots with some other powerful cards, like Elder Sign Amulet, Holy Rosary or St. Hubert's Key. Most of these cards are mystic, so the slot is ok. Relic Hunter is also an option.

Requirements

In order to get the most out of this card, you need:

  • In play as early as possible
  • A reliable source of horror
  • horror soaks to protect it

Getting the key into play

Only way to draw this card early is hard mulligan and seeker cards:

Horror Sources

  • Forbidden Knowledge
  • Scrying 3
  • Shrivelling, but very situational
  • Painkillers, but only if there's damage on your investigator

  • Most of these are cards. Other than these, enemies are the most reliable source of horror. But they often deal damage as well, so you need damage soaks (Bulletproof Vest) and/or healing (Strange Solution).
  • To play it safe, stop taking horror intentionally after the second, so it it's bonus is only at +2. Then it won't leave play when you take another horror wihtout a soak.

Horror Soaks

Other things to note:

  • When taking more than 1 horror, you can place any of them on Key of Ys
  • This card can replace other boosters, like Spirit Athame or Dark Horse
  • Direct horror can't be redirected, even when this card is in play.
  • You can't use Agnes Bakers ability while this card is play, unless it's direct horror

Summary

This card is definately powerful, but uesless if you can't put any horror on it or it's destroyed. So i wouldn't put my first 5 XP into this card, unless your deck (or your party) is built around it.

Django · 5161
- you forgot Painkillers as a source of horror — Adny · 1
- the key isn't redirecting horror, it works in step 2 of the process; direct horror prevents assigning it to other assets in step 1 — Adny · 1
Thanks, i added painkillers. However they can only be used if there's damage on the investigator, see the cards page, comment from " CSerpent" — Django · 5161
You forgot the most important source of horror (at least in the Carcosa campaign): saying 'Hastur'. For those who don't know, there is a story option in the Carcosa campaign that gives you one XP but in exchange punishes you with 1 horror whenever you say the word 'Hastur' while playing. Well, guess what, that's free horror on Key of Ys. gg no re, Mr King in Mellow — jeermaster · 19
Huge spoiler. Thanks. — aramhorror · 709
When you say "Direct horror can't be redirected, even when this card is in play." does that mean if you take direct horror it does not go to the Key? Do you have a link to a ruling on this if this is the case? (most people seem to think it is the other way) — Quilzar · 6
Don’t the Composure cards all work to shield the key from excess horror as well? — Setzu · 330
# Quilzar: Direct horror MUST be placed on your investigator card; nothing will affect that unless it specifies direct horror. #Setzu I use plucky in Yes, This is Dog True Suvivor when needed, because Key of Ys will generally save me spending resources, and I can get plucky back with resourceful (or some other soak) — CecilAlucardX · 10
as already stated above, direct horror must be ASSIGNED to your investigator in step 1 of dealing horror. The key then takes the horror, that is PLACED on you in step 2 of the process — Adny · 1
Meat Cleaver is a source of horror as well, and one that can ramp Key of Ys up to full power really quickly on a fighter. — ClownShoes · 161
I am not sure about direct horror. According to the rules, damage/horror is first dealt and then assigned. When is direct damage/horror means that you can't assign it to an asset. Ok, I "assign" it to my investigator card, but then the Forced effect of the key triggers and you must put it in the Key. The difference with horror not direct is that if is dealt 2 or more horror, if is direct you only place one of them to the key. Am I wrong? — rastrom · 1
Knuckleduster

A strong contender for most unplayable card in the game right now, at least if we're talking Hard/Expert. The upcoming Finn Edwards (who will have 4 Combat) may be able to use this card, especially since he will be very good at exhausting enemies first (which turns off Retaliate). But for Skids or Jenny, this is 100% unusable on anything but Easy, and even there it's unnecessarily dangerous and I would not recommend it. Obviously, Sefina can't even consider it.

(Update: Finn actually has 3 Combat. So I think this is pretty bad even for him.)

Although consistent +1 damage is one of the most desired traits in a weapon, the fact is that most enemies in this game don't have Retaliate. Given that Knuckleduster lacks a to-hit bonus, and that Rogues have low strength, using this card means subjecting yourself to a ton of unnecessary damage. You can evade and exhaust the enemy first to avoid this, but I really don't recommend this. Evading enemies and then fighting them is incredibly wasteful for any investigator not named Finn. Either just kill them or evade them, but don't waste actions doing both. Rogues have plenty of other weapons to pick over this.

This card continues a very weird trend in the design of Rogues where the class gets cards that don't remotely fit the investigators. Rogue weapons like Knuckleduster, Switchblade, and .41 Derringer all seem designed to work for investigators with really high strength. Except, you know, none of the Rogues actually have that, so Rogues are terrible with their own weapons. (In contrast, Survivor weapons like the Fire Axe and Baseball Bat are much more sensibly designed to work for low-strength investigators, so Survivors are actually good with them.)

Anyway, if you asked me to name the least useful card in the game right now, I think I might pick this one. Although, come to think of it, at least it doesn't cost 4 XP like the Springfield M1903 does. So maybe it's the only second-least useful card in the game. That's something.

CaiusDrewart · 3185
Many Rogue cards seems to be built around gaining/spending ressources and succeed by X for extra effects. So pushing your stats with ressources may work with this card, but hardknocks is the only rogue talent, that helps. — Django · 5161
Actually, Finn Edwards is only 3 Combat. — Katsue · 10
Yep! So he can't use this either. — CaiusDrewart · 3185
Does it work in combination with survival knife for leo? U got both out - attack - get attacked back in the best case u deal the damage to a guard dog and than triger guard dog and survival knife. Sounds not that terrible to me. — Ben_em · 7
@Ben_em: Survival Knife can only trigger in the enemy phase. — CaiusDrewart · 3185
Daniela Reyes might take this with Versatile though: 2 damage on a hit, 1 on a miss ;) — AlderSign · 395
No Stone Unturned

This card can target any card in a players deck, including weaknesses. This aspects usefulness depends on the weakness in question:

Other combos:

Django · 5161
This card is insanely strong. 5xp is worth every penny; if your board state isn't vastly improved after playing this card, especially in multiplayer, reconsider your deck. — SGPrometheus · 847
I agree, this is in the top tier of Seeker XP cards. But it's probably best in multiplayer because other classes are more dependent on key assets. Fetching Shrivelling V, Lightning Gun, etc, is probably the commonest excellent use of this card. It has the flexibility to do anything, of course. — CaiusDrewart · 3185
Yes, i'm not saying it's a bad card, just the "aspect of targeting weaknesses" usefulness depends on the weakness in question. For example, it's pointless to target stuff that is shuffled back into your deck, like rex curse or "the thing that follows". — Django · 5161
No Stone Unturned

At the time of writing this had only been out a few days - and I've used it in 3 games...

This card is quietly awesome - if you, or a fellow investigator, have another card that you really need.

It's not flashy. It isn't fancy. There's no cool combos I can see. Letting someone draw any card from a deck doesn't seem that spectacular. But...

  • your Guardian needs his Shotgun - fixed.
  • Minh needs her Analytical Mind - no problem.
  • Your mystic needs a Shrivelling right now, okay ... done.

No fuss, no worries about weaknesses or where it is in the deck, just for 2 resources take any card. It doesn't even cost you an action.

Okay, that is spectacular.

The down side is that 5 XP is a lot of XP. It's up against flashier cards, like the The Red-Gloved Man, Deciphered Reality, Strange Solution. And it's only as good as the card you need to grab, so it probably isn't a good pick for early in a campaign. However, later on, when you've a few high-value cards in the deck - this one is a solid choice.

(That said, for Minh Thi Phan, Analytical Mind is so central to her that I could imagine taking this early for her)

A really solid multiplayer pick.

Solo, it loses too much benefit to be worth it's XP, and Seekers have plenty of access to filtered draw through Old Book of Lore, Eureka!, and No Stone Unturned anyway.

AndyB · 955