Offer You Cannot Refuse

Hello, I just have a couple of basic questions:

Rules book: Effects [...]

  • Once initiated, players must resolve as much of each aspect of the effect as they are able, unless the effect uses the word "may."
  • When a non-targeting effect attempts to interact with a number of entities (such as "draw 3 cards" or "search the top 5 cards of your deck") that exceeds the number of entities that currently exist in the specified game area, the effect interacts with as many entities as possible.

--> Does it means here, that if you loose less than 5 ressources the "If you cannot" effect triggers ?

--> Does Deny Existence still triggers the "If you cannot" effect triggers ? (I cannot imagine that it doesn't trigger)

Cheers,

phosgene · 11
So if you have, say, 3 resources, you'll lose all three because of the second bullet you quoted above. At the same time, since you have less than 5 resources, you cannot lose 5, so the second part of the effect triggers. If you play Deny Existence with 3 resources, you won't lose them, but because you still cannot lose 5 resources, the second effect triggers. If you Deny the resource loss with 5 resources, you can lose 5 resources (even though you won't), so the second effect won't trigger. I think. — SGPrometheus · 847
Since OYCR says "if you cannot, instead...", I think if you cannot lose the full 5 resources, you do not lose any and instead resolve the "remove OYCR from your deck..." effect. — ak45 · 469
Agreed; I didn't notice the "instead" there. So Deny Existence at <5 resources is pointless since you resolve the second effect instead of losing resources, but still useful at 5 or more. — SGPrometheus · 847
I dunno if I agree with SGPrometheus on this one. Ignore isn't defined in the rules reference guide. Ignoring that aspect of the effect isn't really well defined but could easily be interpreted to mean that the card reads as "Lose *nothing*. If you cannot..." Or "If you cannot...". Personally, in the absence of a ruling by Matt, I would take the precedent that if you ignore a cost you are still considered to have paid the cost. Therefore I think Deny Existence satisfies the requirement. — NarkasisBroon · 11
Ignoring an aspect of a card's effect doesn't change or remove the card's text; you simply don't resolve that aspect. Since you cannot lose 5 resources when you have 4 or less, the second effect triggers even if you denied the resource loss. — SGPrometheus · 847
Thanks all for your answer haven't thought about the I can lose 5 resources but I deny existence and then everyhting is fine. — phosgene · 11
I'm wondering how you would apply Deny Existence. Deny Existence works against 1) an encounter card, or 2) an enemy attack. Basic weakness is none of both. — chrome · 66
Treachery and Enemy weaknesses are considered to be encounter cards when they are being resolved. It's the same reason you can use Deny Existence on cards like Sister Mary's weakness. @chrome — Jaysaber · 7
Bind Monster

In bad fantasy movies, there’s a powerful demon that gets sealed for thousands of years. Then on page 3 it gets loose. Bind monster doesn’t have that problem, if you use it right. Because there a certain reasons you keep monsters in play instead of sending them to the encounter discard pile.

In four player, you’re going to cycle the encounter deck a few times. That means monsters recur, and ones that have an obnoxious spawn or engage can bother you over and over. If you have a hunch that the encounter discard is going to be shuffled back into the deck, you might not want to kill an enemy this turn, but you don’t want to take a hit.

Relatedly, you might have scenario effects that empower the nearest enemy. In threads of fate, having a cultist with one HP in your location vs having to spawn one across the board could make a full turn a wasted effort, or create unpreventable doom chain, ending this scenario.

Third, some investigators like having an evaded enemy. Trish can get a bonus clue every turn that you keep this card active. The .25 Automatic is a fun combo, or Sneak Attack.

It has some advantages compared to handcuffs: it can target non-humanoids and doesn’t require a set up action to put it into play. But the cuffs are permanent once applied, and are level 0.

MrGoldbee · 1492
I used to think this card was trash, but you're definitely right. There are numerous occasions when it's better to lock down an enemy rather than defeat it. You can lock down a Brood of Yog-sothoth, a poisonous serpent, or basically any weakness. And the Willpower test of 3 isn't too tough when 5-6 willpower is what most Mystics are holding. — LaRoix · 1646
Fun fact, this shows a gug long before any gug enemies actually existed. — SGPrometheus · 847
This is definitely one of those cards where you're guaranteed to pull an auto-fail on the first try, though. — Zinjanthropus · 230
What about this in Horror in high gear? — Meyjoh · 1
Good call Mey! — MrGoldbee · 1492
Double or Nothing

Double or nothing is now nothing. As the first forbidden card, the creators acknowledged that all the times you might want to use this it either blows up in your face or succeed so well it wrecks the scenario. Instead of designing around it for the rest of time, they’re telling you not to use it.

Which is fine; since core has come out, rogues have many, many ways to gamble. But the day is destroying a campaign and boss with one shotgun blast may be over. You might have to, tragedy of tragedies, use both barrels and even a spell!

MrGoldbee · 1492
I'm really not sure why the developers didn't just mutate it to say: "double 1 of the effects of the successful test twice". I guess that would make it less fun than it has been but there's nothing less fun than not being able to play the card at all. — LaRoix · 1646
Because even doubling one effect requires making sure that all future printed effects that work with Donut dont break the game. I am fully in support of the Donut ban- it’s a card that is not fun to play but is so egregiously powerful that you are forced to take it at any xp cost. Mutation is also a much less clean solution, as its not written on the card. — StyxTBeuford · 13049
Couldn’t agree more. Also since Winifred Habbamock came out it actually became so easy to build a deck that just endlessly loops with Quick Thinking and All In, which absolutely breaks scenarios. Try it out once if you feel like it, but it for sure makes the game kinda boring... :D — Scarx · 53
Rite of Seeking

I think this card is slightly outclassed by most of the other cards that do something similar: Sixth Sense, Clairvoyance, and now my new favorite Eye of Chaos. There are two exceptions though: characters that want access to RoS (2), like Sefina who can't take higher level mystic cards but really benefits from the extra willpower; and Mystics playing with exactly 3 players, where RoS (4) becomes a thundering powerhouse card. Clairvoyance 5 is similarly powerful for 3 players, but I actually feel like the 2 horror starts to become just too painful especially if you're recharging your charges.

The special token consequence is a little awkward, though you can play around it cleverly sometimes.

dubcity566 · 111
play around it? — MrGoldbee · 1492
Just investigate on your third action. I don't think Rite is outclasses at all- double clue spells are still amazing, and taking both of Shrivelling and Clairvoyance is going to horror you out faster than you'd expect. — StyxTBeuford · 13049
Agree with StyxTBeuford. "6th Sense" is best used in solo, but less so in multiplayer. And "Eye of Chaos", if played without curse synergies, is just plain more expensive instead of the spill over effect of other spells. It can get rewarding, in a curse deck (that can still pass the tests on drawing a curse), but without that, I would still always choose RoS over EoC. — Susumu · 381
The Painted World

In 1924, MGM was founded with the slogan “ars gratia artis.” (By 1932, it also had the slogan “more stars than there are in the heavens”). The signature card of Rousseau is the opposite: art that can stand for anything.

The painted world is an intriguing card because unlike most signatures, it gets directly more powerful with every release. It doesn’t have to combo with anything because it becomes Rogue, Mystic or neutral events.

It also allows ridiculousness, like playing “ You owe me one” four to nine different times and building a deck entirely out of other peoples' stuff. (One time from your deck, three times from underneath Sefina, one time when you draw it from underneath, and then Quantum Flux so you can get both back, twice.) And it allows you to become the second richest character, edging out Preston with repeats of Faustian bargain and hot streak.

The trade-off is that you’re building a larger deck with Sefina, so you’ll need to find a way to your paintings out. Arcane initiate is a good one, and can be Sacrificed to get more cards. That’s gratitude in the art world.

But the belle of the ball might be double double. It’s what separates the painter from all the other level five capable mystics. Unfortunately, it cost 8XP, four bucks, takes an arcane slot, and you only get one of them in your deck because it’s exceptional. It’s worth it. With it, your sneak attacks do two damage, twice. Your contraband can quadruple an ally’s ammo or supplies. (Infinite chainsaws become a possibility.) Gain $14 with one action and hot streak...Up to six times, assuming you use your painted world only for that combo.

With ridiculous amounts of money, anything is possible. Have an ally give you Charles Ross and fund the team’s Everything. (Although frankly this is easier to do with Jenny Barnes; She can take him as part of her five wildcards.) Run Lola and get a clue a turn for the rest of the game, Or crush foes with Delilah O’Rourke.

Double storm of souls to clear out rooms, even ridiculously crowded ones. But even before that, there’s a lot of fun to be had with the painted world. It gives you a tremendous amount of flexibility, between evasion, economy, attacks, team actions, or dealing with the encounter deck.

Ars longa, vita brevis.

MrGoldbee · 1492
How does 1+3+1=6? — Death by Chocolate · 1489
Oops — MrGoldbee · 1492
Its now up to 9. :) — MrGoldbee · 1492
Speaking of YOMO, you could YOMO Dayana to get extra uses out of TPW. — Zinjanthropus · 230
Expensive but wild! — MrGoldbee · 1492
I just have a quick rules question, when this is used to copy the [upgraded Pilfer](/card/60328), does it come back to hand at the end of the turn if you succeeded by 2 or more? I am assuming not, since the painted world's text to remove it from the game would stop it from recursing. — jonklin · 515
The Delve Too Deep ruling suggests it can't come back to hand with the Pilfer effect. The word you're looking for is recur, btw. — Katsue · 10
The Delve Too Deep ruling only states that the card would return to being TPW and lose it's victory point. The comparative situation with Pilfer is that it would return to your hand and then go back to being TPW, which is exactly what you want. It sounds to me like it would work with the current rulings. — mrjake1424 · 1
I take it back. I see now that since Pilfer says "at the end of your turn" rather than "instead of discarding" that it doesn't work. — mrjake1424 · 1
"Ars longa, vita brevis" is a very interesting short story by Sommerset Maugham — joster · 96